Root Cause Solutions For You

Holistic Pet Care Revolution: Dr. Barb Fox's Journey to Natural Healing for Pets

• Fabiola Reyes, BCHHP - Root Cause Expert, Cert. AK, CellCore & Nutrition Response Testing® and Quantum Nutrition Testing Practitioner

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Discover the world of holistic pet care with the insightful Dr. Barb Fox, a trailblazing holistic veterinarian whose journey from conventional medicine to a mind-body-spirit approach was ignited by her personal battle with breast cancer. Dr. Fox offers a treasure trove of wisdom gleaned from over three decades of experience, illustrating the profound impact of natural healing practices not just on her own life, but in transforming the health of her animal patients. Through her unique perspective, listeners will gain an understanding of the powerful connection between maintaining a balanced mind, body, and spirit for both pets and their owners.

Join us as we explore the nutritional maze of pet care, uncovering the alarming links between dry kibble diets and gastrointestinal issues like pancreatitis. Dr. Fox shares her expertise on transitioning pets to a species-appropriate diet that mirrors the natural diets of dogs and cats in the wild, promising improved health outcomes and fewer trips to the vet. The episode also shines a light on the intricacies of vaccinations, advocating for titer testing as a safer alternative to over-vaccination, while providing insightful anecdotes that underscore the importance of informed choices in pet health care.

Rounding out our conversation, we delve into the often-overlooked aspect of environmental health, offering practical advice on reducing chemical exposure in pets' living spaces. From safer cleaning products to the timing of spaying and neutering, Dr. Fox equips listeners with actionable steps to foster healthier, happier lives for their furry companions. We also tackle the challenges of communication in today's digital world, ensuring you have all the tools to connect with Dr. Fox and embrace a holistic approach to pet care. Prepare to be inspired and empowered as we journey through these essential topics for every pet owner.

Ready to connect with Dr. Fox, you can reach out to her here https://drbarbfox.com/

Email her at drbfox@yahoo.com 

Disclaimer: The Food and Drug Administration has not evaluated these statements. This podcast is not a medical service; the information provided is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease or condition. The Root Cause Solutions For You, its practitioners, and employees make no warranties, express or implied, concerning the contents. The information shared in this episode is the opinion of the speaker and should not be considered medical advice. You should never disregard medical advice or delay seeking it because of the contents of this episode.

Speaker 1:

Hello everyone. Thank you so much for coming back for another episode of Root Cause Solutions for you. My name is Fabiola and I am your host. I'm super delighted to have here with us Dr Barb Fox, who is a holistic veterinarian and she's also a quantum nutrition testing practitioner. She's been a veterinarian for a long time she's been in the field for she's probably seen all kinds of transitions and I love her field because I am an animal lover. Thank you so much, dr Fox, for being here with us today.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for having me. This is going to be really exciting because I think that the natural side of pet care is so important and it is exploding, thank goodness. If you wanted to know a little bit about me, I have been in practice for over 30 years, and I started out as a conventional practitioner for about 15 years and then I had my own health scare. In 2007, I was diagnosed with a very aggressive breast cancer and I at the time was not a healthy person. I had fibromyalgia, severe allergies, went into anaphylactic shock twice from different things, had respiratory issues, digestive issues, you name it. I had it, and so I was more scared of the treatment the conventional treatment for cancer than I was of dying from the disease, and so I did a lot of soul searching, a lot of praying, a lot of educational things that I went to, and I found out that people could actually heal themselves from their cancer if the body's given the right things. You and I know we're all a mind-body-spirit entity, and so I had to get rid of a lot of emotional baggage I had from a failed marriage. I had to ramp up my exercise routine even more. I was a runner at the time. Anyway, you do all the things you eat, right, you do all the things that your body's supposed to have in the first place. And then I was blessed to be sent to a chiropractor that actually looked at my chart after the doctors had given me more of a death sentence than anything. And she looked at my chart and she goes Barb, I see, you have a temporary health challenge. When do you want to get started? And I went oh my gosh, somebody who believes that I can make this happen, then I can still live. And so I never take a day for granted. I never assume that if I back off on things, that I'm going to be healthy. It's all a journey. And so when I started to have things like all the things I just mentioned a few minutes ago, all those started falling off the wayside and in a year and a half I felt really good.

Speaker 2:

Now, the only medical treatment I had was I had the lump removed. I just when I looked at the mammogram, I couldn't stand to see this Tasmanian, devil looking thing in my breasts. So it was, I'd had the surgery, but I never even took a pain pill. I never did anything else besides just having the lump removed. I kept all my lymph tissue and the other body tissues. It was a leap of faith, and I'm not telling people that they should do this, but it was right for me. And that's how I got into holistic medicine for my animal patients, because I thought my gosh, if I can bring myself to a state of health after having a terminal diagnosis, what can I do for my animal patients? So, in a nutshell, that's where I am today and I'm helping animal patients across the country.

Speaker 1:

Congratulations on persevering and pushing through, and now you're on the other side.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it was like I said, my husband. Now I'm remarried, so I'm in a very happy marriage now. But we look at the mental and the emotional aspects of disease. Almost everything starts as a mental thought or feelings, emotions that get trapped in the body.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I had to learn how to get rid of all that and that was the toughest part, I think body, spirit and mind, and when there's that, almost like a perfect triangle right, like you can't have one without having the other one, and all of them need to be balanced for that longevity and long hair versus a temporary state of oh, I feel good today, but how about feeling good for decades?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, tell us a little bit about what's your approach into how you combine what you've learned and how holistic health has helped you in balancing your system.

Speaker 2:

A small animal clinic that were combined and I started talking to the practice owner say I'd like to carry some essential oils here, I'd like to carry some nutritional supplements. And it was yeah, you can do that, but I don't want anything to do with it. So I took my own products, and at the time when I had the cancer diagnosis, I was going to this chiropractor who was into muscle testing as well, and so I already knew how to test for some of the products. For example, if I had five or six supplements that I knew could possibly work for that animal, I wanted to know the best one. And so then I would secretly go back in the pharmacy and pull the bottles out, because I'm in Northeast Iowa, rural Northeast Iowa.

Speaker 2:

A lot of the people had no idea what I was doing, and so I figured, rather than trying to sit there and explain it and have them call me the voodoo vet, we'll just go ahead and do this behind the scenes. And so then, at other clinics I worked at, I do the same thing. Hey, can I pull in some nutritional supplements, can I pull in some essential oils, homeopathic remedies? And they said, sure, we just don't have anything to do with it.

Speaker 2:

And I eventually broke off and started my own practice where I could do whatever I wanted to do when I wanted to do it, and then right now I do virtual consultations for people all across the country. So it's really nice. I can just get on the phone if I have their medical records in front of them and I can help them. So it's really morphed into a really cool thing where I can work with people across the country. I don't have to be sitting in an office waiting for people to come to me or they have to make a two or three hour drive. If that explains where I'm at now and how I got there, I hope that makes sense.

Speaker 1:

Definitely and what are some of the like crucial things you would you consider in your opinion that are like what are some of the things that, in pet care, that we really should be approaching taking a holistic approach versus a conventional approach?

Speaker 2:

a holistic approach versus a conventional approach? That is a really good question, because I would start with food. The pet food industry is one of the and I'm just going to say it, I want to be blunt here it's one of the dirtiest industries. There is Pet food companies now there are some really good ones out there, but anytime we have ultra-processed food which, for example, dry kibble is it can create carcinogenic metabolites when it's processed, it can create different things that are not good and it destroys all of the original nutrition that might have been in that slurry or that gravy. That is put into a big extrusion machine at high temperatures and high pressures and then what the company has to do is they have to spray on a synthetic vitamin mineral mix, which we all know, or should know, that synthetic vitamins are not well absorbed or even recognized by the body. So the pet food.

Speaker 2:

I have seen an explosion of pancreatitis, different metabolic issues, inflammatory bowel disease, all kinds of gastrointestinal issues, and I can relate it pretty much back to the food. So that's the number one thing is getting our pets on what we call a species appropriate diet. That means that we feed our dogs and our cats like they're out hunting. We don't feed them dry k out hunting, we don't feed them dry kibble, we don't feed them full of starch and carbohydrates. And then what was I going to say about the? Oh?

Speaker 2:

Getting them on a species appropriate food is really not that difficult, I teach. There's a lot of, there's a lot of people out there that are board certified this or board certified that, certified nutritionist here, certified nutritionist there, and if you ask 10 of them, one question, one simple question, you'll probably get 10 different answers. So I try to make it as simple as I can. For my pet parents it's not real difficult to put together a simple homemade diet, and if people don't want to make their diet, that's not a problem. There's plenty of freeze-dried, dehydrated or commercially prepared, both lightly cooked and raw foods out there. That's the number one thing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, that totally makes sense. Nutrition, so fundamental because, again, all the seed oils right, they're having to bind that kibble and every time you're opening and closing that bag or container, if we're emptying the bag and putting in a big plastic container, the air right, that's obviously going to be doing something the oxidative mechanism to that kibble. So I totally agree. My dogs are lucky. They're very spoiled dogs and ever since we adopted them they've been on a species appropriate diet and I used to do it myself when we only had one. And there are so many great services out there because, like you said, there's so many good things that the holistic pet field has definitely been exploding over the last few years and a lot more people are aware. Companies brand just a lot more.

Speaker 1:

This is a way we need to be feeding our animals and I think it's something curious. I've always it's not really like pet food, it's pet feed. Sometimes they call it it's feed. It's not really food and it's literally the thing that you don't want to eat, the thing that it's probably not even it's probably even so bad as far as quality. Right you, why would you want to eat to think that it's probably not even it's probably even so bad. As far as quality, right, why would you want to eat it?

Speaker 1:

Imagine eating cereal every year for the rest of your life and the bad kind of cereal, right? Not even the good kind of cereal, and that's what dogs are eating and cats, right? Yeah, but my dog's always been on like good, balanced diet, and I think that's what people get backed off on. I don't know if I'm balancing, if it's well balanced, right, and I think also if your conventional veterinarian is like shutting that down, oh no, this is bad. You really have to know what you're doing, which is true, you do need to know what you're doing, but is it better to start somewhere than feeding the commercial food that we are feeding them?

Speaker 2:

somewhere than feeding the commercial food that we are feeding them. I have a lot of people that think they're doing the wrong thing when they're actually pretty spot on. The main things I see would be when feeds only meat. I had one woman last week I talked to. She was feeding only chicken, no organs, no fiber, no calcium, no ground bone, anything like that, and I had to just gently say, hey, you're on the right track, I'm glad you're feeding fresh food. We just need to tweak the recipe a little bit.

Speaker 2:

And when you mentioned balance, that hit a note in my head. I really I get really passionate about all this stuff. So bear with me With balance. I don't think balance ever happens, and if it does, it happens over time. It does not balance, it does not happen every day.

Speaker 2:

And then I question too, so I'm a really deep critical thinker what is a balanced diet? Years ago, when I was a little kid, they were teaching the food pyramid pretty much upside down as to what it is today. And so then I have to look at how are our animals? What do they eat when they go out in nature? They're going to eat a bunny. They're going to eat a bird. They're going to eat the feathers, the fur, a little bit, not a lot. They're going to eat some crunchy raw bones. They're going to get the ingesta, which is the digested food in the stomach, eaten, which has some plant material for fiber. They're going to eat the muscle meat and they're going to eat the organs. So they balance over time. They don't do it every day. So when pet parents are scared I'm going to mess up my recipe. I'm saying no, you're probably not, unless you're doing something like feeding just muscle meat for months at a time.

Speaker 1:

So it's not that hard. Yeah, no, that's true. Yeah, and I think it's. Yeah, it's such a great step to sometimes even like gradiently right, because there's a gradient to introducing raw food into someone who's already been eating kibble right For a while. Is that correct?

Speaker 2:

That is correct, because the microbiome has to adjust to the new food. If it's been used to digesting starch and mostly starch and then you get some fat and a lot of protein in there, then the gut has to adjust, and so I usually say 10 to 14 days for the average dog or cat to transition. Sometimes it takes a little bit longer, especially if they've been on a poor quality kibble for most of their lives.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. One of the biggest wins that I've seen or that I've experienced with my dogs being on raw food is that I never see my veterinarian. I love her, she's holistic veterinarian, she practices homeopathy and supplement and she's awesome. But I never see her because they're never ill. They're never like like what's going on, like chronic diarrhea or chronic vomiting or whatever.

Speaker 1:

Sometimes I think there's a lot of pet illness and, let's truth to be told, some of our bills can be very expensive when it comes to treatment. Right, if they turn in ACL. All of that has to do with, I think, a balance or a nutrition that is appropriate for them. So, as they age because they're exposed to chemicals as well, from the grass right, like duck parks and just cities and gosh, all kinds of some different things, and I think their mitochondria are even more delicate than ours because of the centuries of breeding right and mixed breeds and everything, they're even a little more susceptible to some of these different changes in environment, their food, and so I just find it fascinating that I never get to see my veterinarian Only once every so often when we have to do rabies, but that's not often anymore because they're old now.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's awesome and you made a good point that when you put them on a good plan of nutrition they're going to be healthier. They're just going to be healthier. You mentioned the rabies vaccine. I'm not an anti-vaxxer. We do have rabies.

Speaker 2:

In Iowa I have barn cats but they don't get vaccinated. Every year they get vaccinated and I hate to even say this because I don't vaccinate very often. I keep them on a good plane in nutrition. Even my barn cats get raw diets and I can go to the butcher or the local locker and I can get meat scraps, I can get bulk chicken or bulk beef for a little bit of nothing and then it's cheaper than the commercially prepared foods.

Speaker 2:

But the vaccines are another huge issue where I see and I've come to the point where I look at an animal and I'm like if I have to vaccinate it, I'm just praying that there's no vaccine damage I think that some of the newer vaccines, especially the multivalent ones where we have five in one or six in one, seven in1, even more then you're pushing all of these allergens into the body along with all of the metals and the preservatives, emulsifiers, the stabilizers and whatnot that goes into those vaccines Once those excipients or those additives in the vaccine are injected into the body, it's very difficult for the body to get rid of them. It can be done, and I teach my people how to detox before and after a vaccination, but those are also. When you mentioned chemicals, I'm thinking your flea, your tick, your heartworm. All of those things factor in as to our animals' health.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and heartworm. You know know how, for some areas it's higher because of humidity and mosquitoes and stuff, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, yeah, I get it, but if your body is balanced and you're just like a human body is balanced, you're not going to be ill, right? You're not going to be attracting parasites or mold or lime or whatever, or your immune system. If you are exposed to them, your immune system is going to be stronger in handling that.

Speaker 1:

And it's funny because when my dogs do get it's one of them it's prone to more buildup in the teeth. So we've done some dental cleanings and it's a different office and my current veterinarian and they're like, oh, he's due for this, he's due for that. And I'm like, yeah, no worries, we're just going to talk to Dr Sarah and then see what her opinion is on this and they're nice about it, but they already know where I'm coming from. But my dog they're like no ticks, no fleas. Yeah, no harm worm, even though we're in an area where it might be abundant at times during this specific season. So I love it like balancing what we're doing for them. Do you ever do titers for vaccinations or what's your opinion on?

Speaker 2:

that Absolutely. I wish we could titer everything and not have to vaccinate for going for the boarding or the grooming facility or whatever the problem is. I love titers and for those people who don't know what a titer is, it is a blood test. So we draw some blood from your dog or your kitty or your horse, we send it to a state lab like Kansas State University and they will run titers for the core vaccines. So the core vaccines in dogs would be like distemper, adenovirus, parvovirus and rabies, and in kitties that would be calicivirus, panleukopenia, rhinotracheitis and rabies, and in horses it's a bigger list. So I don't have that in front of me right now. But what that test does is it checks to see if your body, if your animal's body, is producing antibodies to that particular disease. And if they are, and in sufficient quantities, then you don't need to revaccinate because you already have the antibodies to those diseases in your system or in the pet system. Say and I have a really interesting story about that, okay, a personal story of mine we were required in vet school to have our rabies shots in our senior year of vet school because we're working with all kinds of animals from all over and the universities don't want that liability. Okay, so at the time I was not into holistic medicine at all, so I had severe allergies and I started taking the allergy desensitization shots the ones that go under the skin and on the third reaction they make you wait in the waiting room for 45 minutes to make sure you're not going to react. And after five minutes I felt like I was going over the top of a roller coaster and I was going to go down, and so I slumped against the wall. This is after the one rabies shot. I slumped to the floor. I'm sorry, I'm getting way ahead of myself. So these incestuation shots. When I reacted to that third one, they said no more for you. Okay, fine, we'll find something else that'll help the allergies.

Speaker 2:

When I went, this was quite a while. This was maybe a year later when I went to get my rabies shot and I really wasn't even thinking in my head allergies or reactions or anything. And so we went and had this little poke under the skin in the arm and five minutes later, here I go again. I feel like I'm going over the top of a roller coaster, only it was a little more severe this time. So I slumped to the floor so I didn't fall and hit my head and it literally passed out on the floor and they got me onto a gurney, took me into the emergency rooms, hooked me up on epinephrine and an IV and I missed three days of school because I was so sick. That was after one rabies shot and we were supposed to get a booster in two weeks.

Speaker 2:

And the doctor I was seeing at the time, my allergist, said if you decide to get that rabies shot, you're risking your life. He said I will write you a medical exemption so you don't have to have that shot. I'm like, oh, thank God, so sure enough I didn't have to have that, but I'm always I'm getting bit. Veterinarians get bit. I've been in practice 30 years, right, so you're going to get bit. You're going to be exposed to some of these body fluids and I was a little bit concerned.

Speaker 2:

This was like 15 or 16 years later after I got that initial rabies shot. I was at a continuing education conference at Iowa State University and they had a booth set up there where the vets could go get their tires taken so if they were getting low on their rabies antibodies they could get revaccinated. Well, I had my blood drawn. They sent it off. A week later the results come back and I kid you not, it was as sky high as the day I'd had the vaccine 16 years later. So that brings me to another point with our pets is that now they're finding out scientifically that the rabies shot can last anywhere from three to five, seven, sometimes nine and even 12 years one shot. But the vaccine manufacturer is not going to make any money, so they're going to tell you to come back every year or every three years or whatever, and that harms our pets' immune systems. I'm on a little campaign to make sure that people know that the titers are the safest way to go, if that makes sense, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah and we, and then that we have an option. If we're choosing to still continue on a vaccination schedule, then what are our options? Because sometimes that's the important part, I think, sometimes for people Do you have an option that you can then be more proactive about their health? Because it's a chemical right Still going to still be in the body and the fat cells and the tissue and yours was there for a very long time. And you said something about liability. How many of these different things are because it's a liability issue, like when you said when we go to the groomers or boarding, are we really advocating for pet health or are we really just trying to cover our butts if something were to happen?

Speaker 2:

Good question. They are trying to cover their butts with their state laws because for Iowa the laws are not specific. But if you look in the Iowa code, in the agricultural part and you can look it up on the internet it says that animals must be immunized against distemper, adenovirus or parvovirus and rabies. It doesn't say anything about how frequently they should be immunized, it just says that they should be immunized. So it's a gray zone there. But then you have the state inspectors that go out and inspect the kennels, the boarding facilities, the doggy daycares, the whatever. And if they, if that owner of that facility cannot come up with current and whatever current means, because there's no state, state statute but they make up their own rules, okay, uh, and so if somebody hasn't had a parvovirus vaccine for four years, they're not going to be allowed to board. Some of them make sure that they have the vaccines every year.

Speaker 2:

But here's the kicker. And I I just have to laugh at this. Because, okay, so you take your unvaccinated animal to the groomer, you're risking because your animal's not vaccinated. Potentially he or she could pick up something at that facility. But shouldn't it be your right and your privilege and your risk that you take on yourself with your animal. Why should it be up to the boarding facility to say that animal's not vaccinated, so it's a risk to the other vaccinated animals? If the vaccine works, what are we worried about?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, that's a good point. I love it. So you mentioned something about teaching pet parents how to support their animals before and after vaccination. Is there anything you could share with us about that before?

Speaker 2:

and after vaccination. Is there anything you could share with us about that? Sure, first of all, we want to make absolutely sure that the animal's healthy before it gets vaccinated, because it states right on the vaccine insert that the vaccination is intended for healthy animals only. That means if your dog is scratching from allergies, if your kitty is getting treatment for diabetes, if your dog has cardiovascular issues, if your horse has metabolic syndrome, equine metabolic syndrome, it shouldn't be vaccinated.

Speaker 2:

But the laws, especially the rabies laws, are hard to get around. So then, if I have to vaccinate, I'm going to make sure that those clients or those pet parents have homeopathic remedies, and I have several companies' products that I use. But any product that has Thuja in it, which is a Western red cedar, that's the homeopathic extract. And then for rabies, we want Lysin, which is L-Y-S-I-N, and those two homeopathic remedies are given several days ahead of the vaccination and for several days afterward. It just depends on the product and the company's regulations or their suggestions on how long to do that, and again, I will muscle test, I will say how many days we need to do this, and so it varies from animal to animal. Also, things like milk, thistle, things that support the liver very important.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, no, that's awesome. Thank you for sharing that. And just to quickly go back to food, are there any specific books or anything like? Someone's trying to get started on a transition from kibble to a species appropriate diet. Is there any guidance you can give them about that?

Speaker 2:

There are many books out there. I know Dr Karen Becker and Rodney Habib. They have a really good book on the forever pet and how to feed. I'm pretty sure they have recipes in there as well. I haven't gotten the book so I don't know. I also on my website, which is barbfoxdvmcom, I have courses on essential oils in dogs and cats and horses, but I also have two nutrition courses. One is a bundle where it goes through different modules on all things related to pet food the dangers of dry food, the epidemic of overweight and diabetic animals and then it goes through six different modules Leaky gut syndrome was a big one on there and then that's bundled with a video course where I'm actually in a commercial kitchen with my sister-in-law and we're showing you how to put together a food, and then there are also directions for the recipe and then how to transition your animal from dry kibble or even a canned food onto the new home-cooked prepared food.

Speaker 1:

Oh, that's so awesome. We'll make sure to put those links in the show notes so that people who are listening can go and check them out. Because, yeah, it's a transition. Like I said, when I first started, I was going to my butcher shop and buying all kinds of things based on my meal plan, and then, when we got our second dog, I'm like I can't do this all Sunday. I can't just be prepping food for two weeks. But so I'm lucky enough that we do have someone who's local, who does in small batches, balance suspicious appropriate diets, and small batches balance suspicious appropriate diets, and that's why some people do all the time. I'm like go see Mark, because he has everything you need.

Speaker 2:

So you're lucky to have that in your area.

Speaker 1:

I am, I really am. I have an amazing holistic veterinarian and then I have a canine kitchen that's their name and they're awesome. So they come every two weeks into town and there's like maybe 20 of us who are picking up food every other Sunday too, and I'm like, oh, you're my client, you're my client and so I'm always referring people to them. Yeah, so I wanted to ask you about spaying and neutering, like desexing our animals. What's your opinion on that?

Speaker 2:

My opinion is I'm torn, and I'll tell you why I'm torn. 30 years ago, when I first started out in practice, we had virtually no issues with cruciate tears, we had no problems with girl deformities in dogs and the whole. Let me, I'm getting ahead of myself. So for the newbies here, I've got to explain where I'm going. Is that the new thought is to wait until an animal, especially with the large breed dogs to wait until they are 18 to 24 months of age to spay or neuter.

Speaker 2:

Going back in history, I'm thinking what has changed? Because I used to spay and neuter everything when it was young and it had to be six months of age or older. That's still considered young, but we didn't see these problems that people are experiencing now. So the thought is that when we de-sex them, we are taking out their reproductive hormones, their estrogen, their testosterone. We're messing with the other things in the endocrine system as well, and that can create problems. I totally agree with that. However, when I didn't see it before and we're seeing more of it now, what has changed? Is it because we're vaccinating I'm sorry if we're spaying or neutering early or is it something else and I think it's a multifactorial type of problem.

Speaker 2:

I have no problems waiting with a smaller dog to spay or neuter it until it's two or three years of age dog to spay or neuter it until it's two or three years of age. But when we take a hundred pound dog, and then especially a deep chested dog, we're looking at surgical, like difficult surgeries, the possibility of slipping what we call a ligature because the dog there's so much. There's so much more fat, muscle tissue and everything than a very young dog. So the surgical complications arise and I know that some veterinary clinics I've worked at they just refuse to spay and neuter anything over two years of age because of that. Now neutering isn't so bad because we're not going abdominally, but with the females we have to open up through the abdominal cavity, search for everything and again it becomes a more difficult surgery. So that's why I say I'm torn. I understand the benefits of waiting until they're older to spay or neuter, but yet the risk of surgical complications and healing time is much longer with the older dogs.

Speaker 1:

Gotcha, yeah. Is there an option for, like male dogs, because I think especially for male dogs aggression if they're not neutered or stuff like that? And is there an option for a vasectomy? Would that change anything or how would that impact, like hormones? Or I guess my question is do neutering really gets rid of the aggression that I think most people are choosing not to deal with because all the sex hormones are still present?

Speaker 2:

Right Again, there's two schools of thought on the aggression I've known.

Speaker 2:

In fact, my brother has two unneutered dogs and they're male. They're nice dogs. There's not a mean bone in their body. Sometimes it's breed related, sometimes it's a training, sometimes it's the food even, or the chemicals that they're exposed to that makes them more aggressive. But I think a lot of these animals is more of a behavioral training type of thing. Vasectomies can be done, but you still have the testicles there. They're still going to be producing testosterone, even though the body makes hormones when it doesn't have any. It may not make them in sufficient amounts, but they still make some hormones. There are what we call bio-identical hormones, though. That can be used, and I even use essential oils that have some estrogenic-like activity and testosterone-like activity with the pets and even in myself. I'm post-menopausal. Obviously I need some extra hormones, but I don't want to take the synthetic hormones because we don't know what the risks are with those. There are some options with the animals, and I'm not opposed to spaying or neutering, but we need to support them, their joints and everything if they are neutered or spayed early.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's yeah, like the whole. Yeah, the whole complement, versus just okay, we're going to snip and then you're on your own kind of thing. Right, support their system Correct yeah, that's awesome. What about deworming like parasites and stuff? We do it. I think we as humans don't do it enough, even though we do it to animals. Right, this is a common practice. Any advice? Because we work with herbs, I think some of my clients' hesitation sometimes when approaching a natural approach to deworming. It's the interaction of different herbs with different animals, like black walnut and stuff like that. So what's anything you can give approach and a natural approach to deworming? It's the interaction of different herbs with different animals, like black walnut and stuff like that. So what's anything you can give us about that?

Speaker 2:

Deworming. Let's back up here a minute With deworming. When we check a stool sample on a pet or a horse, we're looking for parasites that are in the intestinal tract, like hookworms, whipworms, for parasites that are in the intestinal tract like hookworms, whipworms, tapeworms. Tapeworms are actually. They're seen coming out because they break off and they are not shedding. The eggs are shed off in the little pieces that look like little minute rice or sesame seeds. Humpworms, tapeworms, roundworms are commonly looked for, as well as coccidia and giardia on a regular stool sample. But we have those parasites that are circulating through the tissues into the bloodstream, maybe into the brain, the eyes, other tissues of the body that are not picked up by that, and then we get what we call a negative fecal exam, a negative parasite exam, which really isn't true.

Speaker 2:

So, like you with the herbs, I use companies that have different anti-parasitical types of products. They're mainly herbal and I will use those with the pets. There is an essential oil that I use that is a blend of different gastrointestinal supportive types of oils, and so they will be almost as good as a dewormer even when they're applied topically. So I take the natural route as much as possible, but if an animal has a really heavy intestinal worm burden. I'll go ahead and do things like pyrantel, which is strontium, panicure and bendazole. They're safe because you're not using them every day. You're just doing like a one-time dewormer periodically. But if we can control those parasites, no matter what kind of parasite it is, with your natural supplements and anti-parasiticals is great. I think that would be the way to go.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, better support, more balanced, easier time, maybe detoxing and stuff like that, right? Yeah, using a quarterly deworming it's a good practice, or keeping an eye on symptoms is best.

Speaker 2:

I think that if we're doing the anti-parasitical types of herbs on a regular basis, maybe one week out of four, then checking a stool sample and, like I said, I just it sounds like I'm contradicting myself, but most of the parasites that we deal with in veterinary science are in the intestinal tract and they come out feces. But I think if we do it on a more regular basis we're going to prevent it rather than waiting for the parasites to mature and then we've got a mature worm bird and then we get a problem.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Gotcha, Okay, cool, no, that's awesome. So if you had like someone who's brand new? I mean, we covered diet, which I think it's a very important step right. But someone is like I can't afford raw food right now. Gosh, I can barely afford my, you know, feed my family right now. You know, one cannot think about now switching my dog's diet to actual, to real food. How could someone who still feed Kibble give their pets that support in order to fill in some of those gaps that they might not be getting through their nutrition?

Speaker 2:

I'm glad you asked that question because I deal with this. A lot People say I can't. I just can't do it. I've got four big dogs and with the economy the way it is, I can't do it. I say, fine, here's what you can do. You can use some ground beef, you can use some pulled chicken as a topper.

Speaker 2:

And years ago, even when I was at the Standard Process seminar for veterinarians, Tom Cameron, who was the lecturer at the time, said guys, if you can't get your people, or your people can't feed a totally species-appropriate diet, at least feed 25 to 50 percent of their diet daily in fresh food, and I think most people can afford to put maybe a half a cup of hamburger on their dog's food once a day. There are commercially prepared toppers with some companies that also you can sprinkle on. It'll just provide a better plane of nutrition for everybody. So there are ways around that. Yeah, and I get it. It's tough, but I will tell you that a lot of the dry foods out there are now so expensive that people are looking more at providing at least half the food in a fresh food form.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's true. Yeah, when you go to the PetSmart or whatever Petco, it's oh my gosh, there's so much, there's so much food there. My brother has a blue heeler and he's got a St Bernard and he goes through so much food just and I'm like, oh my gosh, I could not. Yeah, and it's true, there's so much food just. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I could not. Yeah, and it's true. I don't know if I had those type of dogs, if I would be like, oh yeah, let me see your raw. You know how much would I have to feed the St Bernard? And there will be a lot of food.

Speaker 1:

It would be, I mean my dogs are small so I can get away with it. Awesome Gosh. We cover vaccines and we covered parasites immune challenges. Dr Fox, is there anything else that you think we haven't covered that you may want to cover briefly?

Speaker 2:

Sure it would be the chemicals that our animals are exposed to and that can be in the form of a topical or an oral flea tick heartworm product, of a topical or an oral flea tick heartworm product. These companies are making it very convenient for the owners to buy one product that covers or kills five or six different things at once, including lice, ear mites, heartworm, fleas, ticks, and then it can be used also as a general. That is one area where I really try to get people to think let's use the least, the minimal type of product that you can. In other words, we don't want the one stop or one shop for everything. One stop shop for everything. We want to make sure that we're putting on. If you're using a flea and tick preventative, make sure it is the least. It doesn't have five or six ingredients in it.

Speaker 2:

I know that some of these products have so many chemicals in them and that goes on our animals all at once. So if we're using a topical, I'd really really stay away from the oral meds as far as the flea and tick, just because it gets in our system and it can't get out. At least with the topical you can somewhat wash it off if your animal has a bad reaction to it. But even household and garden chemicals.

Speaker 2:

I come across people all the time that are still using things like the scentsy candles, the Glade air fresheners, different toxic things that they're spraying for deodorizing and stuff, when there are things like essential oils and other natural products that can be used in places that are a lot safer. We have to think about green cleaning, even laundry detergent. I've had asthmatic dogs and cats that have been laying on sheets or bedspreads that were washed with a really heavily scented laundry product. Once we take that away, their asthma goes away. Laundry product once we take that away, their asthma goes away. So it's just wow. It's awareness of what they're being exposed to.

Speaker 1:

Okay, yeah and, and I do think they're more susceptible, they're smaller, uh, they're closer to like the dogs, and my dogs are on the carpet. So if I'm shampooing my carpet with chemicals and scented things and they're going to be absorbing it, it's funny because we went out of town a few months ago and we stayed at Airbnb and I'm very sensitive to chemicals myself, especially fragrances. I get immediate headaches and reactions. One of the first things that I do is that I take any candles away or any plugins that they host may have, because I'm just very sensitive to them. But their sheets, their bed sheets, their blankets were like, oh my gosh, they smell so bad.

Speaker 1:

And by the time that, so we were just only there one night, so it was variable, but still was really bad. But the dog sleep with us and I think I had to bathe my dog two times because he still smelled like the detergent from the bathroom, oh, and I was like what's in you? What did she, what? What did they use to clean these things? But yeah, it took me like two baths and he does not love to be in the shower, poor little guy but yeah, it took me a few times to get that off of him because I was like I still smell it, like I can smell it on you. So poor guy, I was like, yeah, giving him a homeopathics to help him detox, because you could even tell that he was like a little disoriented just from being exposed to the chemical.

Speaker 2:

Wow.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, it's wild.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I was just going to say with kitties I can't stress enough to use unscented kitty litter when you mentioned. They're down there and they're smelling it. Yeah, their kitties are scratching, they're getting it on their foot pads. They are smelling it. Same thing Non-perfumey, just plain kitty litter. That's not dusty.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I like that. Are there any specific brands you would recommend?

Speaker 2:

No, I just I can say the pine litters you know, the ones made out of pine pellets or pine powder is really good. I shouldn't say powder, it's more like little tiny pellets, because you get a natural deodorizer as well with that. But I, with my cats I've got four house cats, I've got 13 barn cats and they have even the barn cats have litter pans, believe it or not. So I'm not walking in their piles of in the yard as much, but I will just find a least the least expensive one I can that's unscented and it's not dusty. So there are a lot of options out there.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much and for being here with us and educating us on how to take the next step. It is scary, but it is very doable in some aspects. It doesn't have to be overwhelming, and so if you, what were some last words of wisdom that you could leave our listeners with?

Speaker 2:

I think that take baby steps. Everything doesn't have to be changed all at one time. If your dog is on a really bad quality dry food, go to a better quality dry food and then think about adding the toppers. Like I said, it doesn't have to be done all at one time. It depends on a person's finances, their ability to spend the time that they need to. Obviously, people that are retired or are staying at home, working from home have more time to do that. But just take baby steps and make positive changes as you go, and I think that's probably the most important thing that a pet parent could do at this point.

Speaker 1:

I love it, I love it. And if someone wanted to start working with you, dr Fox, how would they find you?

Speaker 2:

I have a new website up and I will give you both websites for the comment section or whatever you want. However, you want to put that up there, but it's just simply drbarbfoxcom and there are options for working with me there, drbfoxcom.

Speaker 1:

And there are options for working with me there.

Speaker 2:

So the other thing people can do, the other things that people can do is they can directly email me, and I love emails because I have a written note there. Texts get wiped out. Phone call messages sometimes don't even reach me. My email is DrBFox, like drbfox at yahoocom.

Speaker 1:

Perfect, awesome. So we'll make sure to add all those notes also into our transcript so that people can reach you, and I really appreciate your time being here with us and giving us a glimpse into the holistic world of animals, and thank you so much for advocating for animals and educating us so how we can be better for them.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for inviting me on the program. Appreciate it.

Speaker 1:

Awesome. Thank you so much, everyone, and we'll see you at the next episode.