Exploring the Benefits of Massage Therapy

Do you view massage therapy as a luxury or a necessity? Today, we challenge this perspective!

In this episode of Root Cause Solutions For You, we are joined by Christen Makan, LMT, a seasoned massage therapist with 15 years of hands-on experience; she graduated from Cortiva School of Massage Therapy in Pinellas Park, FL, in 2009.

She empowers us to see massage as a tool for therapeutic healing, body awareness, and even support for detox journeys. Kristin introduces us to the transformative benefits of massage therapy, shedding light on how it aids in releasing heavy metals or chemicals from the body.

We also explore the tender world of pregnancy massage; pregnancy, a beautiful yet challenging period, often comes with its unique discomforts. But did you know consistent massage therapy can be a game-changer? Christen shares her wisdom on working with pregnant women, illuminating how massage therapy can relieve hip pain, a joint discomfort during pregnancy and even assist in pain management during labor. 

But Christen's journey as a massage therapist goes deeper than just helping soon-to-be moms. Her expertise extends to addressing chronic pain and inflammation through specialized techniques. She shares how she works with specific muscles, such as the quadratus lumborum and psoas, and the right approach to trigger points in the body. 

Christen's insights on how massage therapy can contribute to these goals will prove invaluable if you seek a way to manage stress and improve your overall well-being. Tune in, and join us on this enlightening journey into massage therapy.

Christen currently practices in Clearwater, FL. She can be reached at (727) 437-9728 or by email at christenmakanlmt@gmail.com

Disclaimer: THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION HAS NOT EVALUATED THESE STATEMENTS. This is not a medical service; our information is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease or condition. The Root Cause Solutions For You, its practitioners, and employees make no warranties, express or implied, concerning this email's contents. You should never disregard medical advice or delay seeking it because of the contents of this episode.

Transcript

Fabiola Reyes: 0:00

And we'll thank you so much for joining us today on this next episode of Root Call Solutions. For you, it is my pleasure to have Kristin Makin, who is a licensed massage therapist, and I'm gonna let her introduce herself to you and then we'll get started. Please go ahead and tell us a little bit about yourself.

Christen Makan, LMT: 0:21

All right. Well, thank you for having me. I am a licensed massage therapist. I went to school in Florida, where I still live, in 2009. I graduated from Cortiva Institute of Massage Therapy in Pinellas Park, and so I've been doing this for about 15 years. I took a little bit of a break in there, but I've still been working on family and friends. I am licensed to do relaxation massage, therapeutic massage, deep tissue, prenatal and a one point, neuromuscular therapy, which I mean I still know. So a lot of that, like what I do is basically just focused mostly around helping people feel better, finding out, like what's actually causing the pain they're feeling or the discomfort or the lack of movement or whatever, and helping them to get back to a better operating state. So that's what I do. I love doing this. Wow, that's awesome.

Fabiola Reyes: 1:24

Yeah, that's so cool. You have so many skills, right. So, not just like pain management, but I love the prenatal one and I definitely want us to talk about that, because I think I did interview a chiropractor who from your area as well. She's in Clearwater, dr Jenny Lane, and one of the things she does is helps pregnant women and their baby Eastie, and I was like, oh my gosh, yes, this is like we're on a theme here. That's so awesome. So what led you to be on this path as far as massage therapy for you?

Christen Makan, LMT: 2:03

Actually, it's actually pretty funny. When I first moved here, my first job was doing tech support for a company that did chiropractic billing and management software. So whenever I had a break I would go and give everyone shoulder massages and they'd all be like, oh, you're so good at this, you need to go to school, and blah, blah, blah. And I was like yeah, and then I actually ended up like I was doing it wrong, Like I was using my thumbs way too much. So I went up and got my first massage and the woman was amazing and she just seemed to know all this stuff and I was like this is cool. So I was like you know what, Maybe I will go to school for this. And I did. But yeah, it was.

Fabiola Reyes: 2:43

Oh my gosh, that is so awesome, that's so cool. Yes, it's sometimes the little things that we don't even think about or have planned, like oh my gosh, I'm eight years old and I know what I want to do, kind of.

Christen Makan, LMT: 3:00

Yeah, that was never. I never, nope, I was always like I don't know what I want to do with my life.

Christen Makan, LMT: 3:05

But the more I did it like when I was in school, I really that's when I really was like, oh okay, maybe this is my purpose, because I just did so much joy and it's just so comfortable to be able to help people and it's like I can talk to their bodies which sounds really weird, probably, but it just like I know what's happening and I'm like, oh, it wants blah. And they're like, okay. And then they're like, oh, yeah, that works. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, it did.

Fabiola Reyes: 3:34

Oh my God, that is so awesome. I love that. I love that. I've never heard of massage therapy say I can you know, like talk to the body? I mean the body talks to you too, right Cause I'm sure if you ask or a specific question, if you're touching a specific muscle or touching a specific reflex, it gives you an answer. So that's awesome.

Christen Makan, LMT: 3:56

It's a little different.

Fabiola Reyes: 3:57

That's so cool. So one of the things that I, you know, I think is some misunderstood about massages is that we often look at them as like a luxury, or we're Pampering or you know. We often think, oh, I'm so stressed, I'm gonna go and get a massage, and well, that is definitely not Incorrect. I often think that we forget on a keyboard here which is therapy. So it was wondering if you could tell us about more how to, how to do, how do we Expand our comprehension of what truly a massage therapy can do for us?

Christen Makan, LMT: 4:39

That's a very good point. Basically, I guess the it's hard for people to Understand that if what I found is a lot of people don't even know, like they don't even know, that something isn't functioning. Like it takes. I had one guy who, like he knew he, he he needed massages. Like he's like yeah, you know, my back hurts and everything's really tight. My neck isn't really moving.

Christen Makan, LMT: 5:06

I've had this lump in my calf for like months or weeks or years or whatever or a long time, and I started working on him and he's like oh, this, I didn't realize that that was hurting, or like that wasn't working, or like the more I worked on him, the more he, his Awareness came up. So like that's. One thing is that I think a lot of people they just go, I need to, I need to keep going, and so they just kind of like shove all the little aches and pains aside and they don't realize that, um, that there's even anything to do there, like to handle. So if I think once they start getting massages, then they start going oh, maybe there's like something. Like maybe there's something to this, maybe I could function better, maybe I don't have to have this pain all the time.

Fabiola Reyes: 5:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that's so true, and I feel, like you know, like I, as a practitioner, often working with clients who are either go through a more detox journey or a heavy metals or Chemicals and even address and food sensitivities right, like you name it it's so important to use other modalities other than the, the technique that I use, which is muscle testing. I play Cineology and I've seen such an improvement from partnering with massage therapists because it really gets that the fascia right, like I do. There's been so much Um awareness now as to how fascia can definitely hold onto trauma and as we, as we are detoxing, then we want to, we want to release that trauma right. We wanted to release whatever might be stuck in there, and I feel like Such a great tool as massage therapy can can definitely help someone do that.

Fabiola Reyes: 6:56

Oh that's so awesome. Can, yeah, can you tell us a little bit about the prenatal massages? I am super curious about that.

Christen Makan, LMT: 7:02

I don't want to forget to ask that question um, they're actually like really, the major difference is there Is I have women like on their side. Obviously, they can't lay on their stomach unless they have a table, like dr Jenny's, where she's got it. It's made specifically for them to be able to do that, but, um, mm-hmm, I basically have them on one side or another. You can pretty much Do a massage on a pregnant woman like.

Christen Makan, LMT: 7:30

There's a lot of people that are afraid like they're like, oh, I don't want to put them in labor, and like there's all these myths. This is one of the things that we went over when I, when I took the class to get certified. There's a lot of myths about working on pregnant women. And, yes, you do so. You do have to like Take the responsibility and be like, okay, whatever happens, it's on me, that's true, but it's like it's there's not nothing's really going to happen Like.

Christen Makan, LMT: 7:53

I've worked on pregnant women early in early trimester. I've worked on like right before they went into labor. Um, I've never like put somebody in labor Prematurely. There's one woman that we that it may have helped her go into labor, but it was like shoes in her window, so it was totally fine. Yeah, like, but yeah, you, the there's, you learn the pressure points of the things that could possibly cause labor, but like you have to hit all of them like, and you had to hit them hard to really like make somebody go into labor, as like in my from what I've learned, like in my observation. But yeah, it's, but it's great for them. Yeah, I'm doing a lot of work on the hips because, like every pregnant woman will tell you, like my, my hips are killing me. Like I'm seven months pregnant right now.

Christen Makan, LMT: 8:38

And I'm like I have to have a complete reality with every pregnant woman I work on, I'm like, oh girl, I know and they're like oh, I love your massages and I'm like that's because I know what hurts.

Fabiola Reyes: 8:51

Oh my gosh, that is so awesome. Yeah, because I think, um, you know, I can't depending on, or it really doesn't matter what a person might be going through. Um, I really have come to appreciate massage therapy, not only personally, right, and um For, also as a practitioner, and I think most of us, you know, and maybe like, oh gosh, the massage, you know, Like getting it every week. Sometimes some of us may need to go to see our massage therapist every week, right, depending on what may be going on, or every other week, um, and sometimes that may the, the, the, the price of that might be like, oh gosh, I don't want to pay for this every Um, every week or every other week or whatever, but I think it's just um, I think from my, from my perspective and my clinical experience, you save money Because if you are using and you're eating well, you're taking your supplements as erected and you're using all these other modalities, your body will actually heal and repair um at the Wanted rate that your body wants to heal and repair.

Fabiola Reyes: 9:59

So it's to me and in the long run, you are actually Saving money, you're getting better, you're not lengthening your, you're your care right, and now obviously one could say, well, a little bit is better than nothing. And well, that might be true, I think, just like anything. Again, focusing on the war therapy, um, you will want to do that on a consistent basis. And what? What do you think about that? Was your? What's your take on that?

Christen Makan, LMT: 10:26

Yeah, I agree, um, I have noticed there are a few people that I that I've been seeing, uh, either Every week or every other week, but like consistently, and I can see the change in them. And one I have one woman that uh Almost she almost died from covet a couple years ago. She's in the hospital on the ventilator like the whole nine yards and she came out of the hospital like unable to move and she decided to, among other things, that she was doing one of the one of her things that she that she swears by is. She got Two, was she two hour massages twice a week and she still does that.

Christen Makan, LMT: 11:02

Wow, she was doing it with somebody else then and now she's doing it with me. She's been doing it with me for six months and I can see like she and she's a very determined woman, so like there is that Um, but she's come really far like she's she's doing all this stuff and she's just so back to go, go, going and she like almost died. So I mean she's like, yeah, if I didn't have my massages, forget it.

Fabiola Reyes: 11:24

Like so yeah, Wow, oh my gosh, no, that's so awesome. So, out of all the uh different you know uh Little specialties, trying, that you that you do is a one that's your favorite. It's a one that you're like oh, I'm Passionate about working with people on pain management or prenatal or is yeah.

Christen Makan, LMT: 11:47

I mean, I do, I do like doing all of it, but I love like when somebody I love figuring out like what came first, like what's the first thing to handle. Like when somebody's like, oh, like I had a lady that came in and she's like my, what did she say? She had pain like radiating up from her cat like into her hips, and so she had gone to somebody else and like focused on her hips and I was like mm, from looking at you and you like as soon as you start talking, I thought calves. And she's like me too. And I was like, well, let's try that. So we start with her calves. And she's like, oh, yeah, like, yeah, that definitely helped. And I was like, yes, like I love like finding the actual, like you know, the root cause of some things, if you will oh, my god.

Fabiola Reyes: 12:32

Yeah, that's so awesome and I think your your years of experience. Maybe, when you even see someone's posture right or how what someone may be having health concerns about your, your, your mind probably starts to go okay, this is what we need to work on.

Christen Makan, LMT: 12:50

Yep, I started doing one of these. I get back and I like start looking at them.

Fabiola Reyes: 12:54

Hmm.

Christen Makan, LMT: 12:56

You see your shoulders, let me see this. Like turn around, like that's so great. You feel like you're standing straight right now.

Fabiola Reyes: 13:04

Okay, Good, oh my gosh, that's so cool, that's so awesome. No, and I love it. You know, like I think finding something that that we are passionate about and doing it for a long time, it's so rewarding, right, and about helping, helping others regain their health. I love it when a client comes back and they tell me hey, you've been constipated and now, you know, have regular bowel movements, and I'm like yay, and those are like the weird things that you know us as practitioners get to celebrate, so that's so awesome. I was wondering if you would be willing to share some like you know, techniques or exercises or little things that people may do per se, like about lower back aches. You know, like think a lot of people do so, you know, I think that's a great way to suffer of lower back pain.

Christen Makan, LMT: 14:01

Yeah, that is something that I do a lot of. I actually one thing that.

Christen Makan, LMT: 14:05

I do that I don't know if everybody really does from. I mean, from what I've seen, people are kind of afraid to work on like the glutes or like and I just get in there and I'm just like this is the biggest thing that's happening in your body. It takes so much stress and like. That's one of the big like contributors to lower back pain. And my aunt is also actually in slash service and she showed me a stretch where you put your leg, you put your foot on your knee, the opposite knee yeah, I actually can't use my stomach muscles but I forget what it's called but you basically put you put your leg on your knee, kind of like this, and you use that knee to bring the opposite leg up and that will stretch the whole like the back, the hamstring, which is another contributor to lower back pain, and the glutes and piriformis and all that stuff.

Christen Makan, LMT: 15:04

But that I actually did, that. I use that one Because I used to have like pretty bad lower back pain too. So that was a good one. The child's pose is amazing, like foot, the yoga pose.

Christen Makan, LMT: 15:22

What else I like as massage wise, like these muscles back here that are on either side of your spine, that they're called quadratus, yeah, quadratus lumborum or QL. He might hear some therapists say those are like huge and like I'll get into those. And people are like, wow, I didn't even know that those hurt. And I'm like, yeah, and you can do it on yourself, you can have like, if you can have like your husband or whatever, dig into them. And it's amazing. And I've also been seeing a lot with the front of the hips. And there's a muscle called psoas which is like I've run across more and more people now that know that one, because because they have it all dysfunctionalized and somebody told them what it was called.

Christen Makan, LMT: 16:11

But that's a huge one Because we all sit in chairs nowadays for a long periods of time and we're like on computers and we're like doing this. Yeah, or on our phones, right Like holding our phones, yeah but yeah, like those are the things that I've seen.

Fabiola Reyes: 16:31

That's awesome. I'm gonna have to try some of those. Yeah, that's so cool. So I was wondering so for, like, you know, like, when you work with someone with chronic pain, right, and chronic inflammation Because I as a practitioner I also see a lot of them you know again, as people are working on more detox parasites, all that stuff you know where it's, just, innately, your the body's, like you know getting all this lactic acid built up right and exercise and gosh, you know all kinds of detox therapies and so I was wondering if you could, yeah, like, let us expand a little bit on you know chronic pain, inflammation, and how massage therapy would be a great tool to support someone's. You know lymphatic drainage and stuff like that.

Christen Makan, LMT: 17:28

Yeah, I mean it is a great tool. There is obviously like lymphatic massage, which is something I'm not personally certified in, but that is like that's a good gentle way of of like getting the body flowing in the right direction. When I do massage, I do keep in mind that, like where the limit like there's, you know, in the armpits, in the groin, in the neck, like there's, there's places where you want to put. When I work, I work towards those areas and then I start closer to to make sure that the like closer to the drain is is like freed up first or there's somewhere for it all to go. And that's one actually huge thing with people that do detoxes, as I think sometimes people do not make sure there's somewhere for the stuff to go. So that's like a really important step, because if you start detoxing and everything's blocked, then it's just gonna like.

Christen Makan, LMT: 18:22

I've seen that happen. It's no fun, yeah, yeah.

Fabiola Reyes: 18:27

Yeah.

Christen Makan, LMT: 18:28

But so I do try to do that whenever I like and I see a lot. I see, like a like more than I thought when I started a lot of inflammation like in places like in like necks and backs, like in people's backs. I'm like I'm going like this and like, wow, this is, this is actually inflamed. It's not, it's not acute, it's not like, it's not like on fire right now, but like there's like extra fluid and like just stuff, kind of like sitting there and I'm like, yeah, that's interesting, yeah, so then, yeah, a big thing with massage is is flows, like getting things moving, getting things move toward the drains of the body and getting the, the, the, the like the circulatory system in motion, because a lot of people have it sign in again from sitting a lot or whatever.

Fabiola Reyes: 19:16

Yeah, well, that's awesome. Yeah, you're right. You know, like we, we do a detox program, either with a practitioner or on our own, with what to be commercial or whatever right, and it's leading us to that, to, to that path. And then when you write, making sure that all the the drainage pathways right, which I, during my training, during my education and training, we think of, like bowel movements right, our, our huge component of drainage pathways and liver function, lymphatic right System and even mitochondria, you know, like all these different things that definitely contribute to, to yet opening those, those channels.

Fabiola Reyes: 20:00

Because, you're right, if we are backed up, that stuff's got to go somewhere and it may not be right. You're like thinking, you're doing, oh my gosh, I'm doing toxin, and then you're not feeling well because those pathways that you just were mentioning are are stuck right and they're like, yeah, we got to make sure that stuff can go towards, you know, the right direction. And so thank you for thank you for going over that. Sure, and what about? You know, if I'm trying, I'm trying to remember everything you listed at the beginning, everything that you do.

Christen Makan, LMT: 20:34

So you, prenatal, prenatal pain management, I think, is something you mentioned, or something similar to that I do like therapeutic, like basically, when I do a massage, I don't necessarily like people come in and they're like they just kind of tell me, like what's bothering them, or I just see, I just have them lay down because I'm like, don't even worry about telling me, I'll just I'll figure it out. So it's a mix. It's like I try if the body is not, if the body doesn't trust me or it's not relaxed enough to show me what's happening, then so I do like I use the tools of relaxation in pretty much every massage. I use the tools of of, like neuromuscular, or like finding trigger points, like spots where you push on it, and they're like, oh my God, like whoa, what is that it's? You know, it's like a bunch of built up lactic acid, it's a stuck flow, it's like something that sometimes you got to use static pressure to make it let go.

Christen Makan, LMT: 21:35

But I don't, I don't like attack, like I don't like and when I was in school they'd say helging somebody, like getting there with your, immediately, with your elbows, and like just like pounding on people. Like I don't do that. I just kind of basically get the body to trust me, find, have it, show me the things that are like where, where are the areas that are not functioning? And I just kind of like between the trigger points and like just the, the continuous, like repetition of like moving. Okay, good, we're going to move stuff toward the drain, we're going to keep going this way, eventually, like things just relax and let go. That's kind of what I did.

Fabiola Reyes: 22:19

Yeah, no, that's so great. And I think that kind of like brings you know back on the concept of this is why is that therapy right? This is not why it is just something you kind of do every so often or, you know, whenever you have time, right. It's really something that, when the consistency of it, yeah, you get the body to continue to give you more information and communicate, and then you can then kind of design a plan for that specific person's care, right. So, no, that's thank you for thank you for going over that. Now, my I know my massage therapist always tells me lots of water after your massage and I will be honest, sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. But I wanted you could help us understand better as to why that would be for some of us who, unfortunately, might not be as compliant as we should be.

Christen Makan, LMT: 23:18

Oh yeah, and I totally understand. Sometimes you really don't feel like it. I'm lucky enough to live in Florida, so I'm like look guys, it's hot outside, you're thirsty, just drink water instead of Coke, like you know, it's not that hard. Not that I mean, not that, everybody Right. So bringing off this main message is to highlight the sign that you're asking as Route 2.

Christen Makan, LMT: 23:32

I'll tell you straight to the scratch. That's it for this video here. Yeah, so basically, if you can, like we're talking about the detoxing, so then the detox pathways and all that stuff. So when you do massage you're stirring things up. You are like when you break up a knot, you're like putting lactic acid back into the bloodstream and toxins and waste product and like all, just all this stuff. And if you don't drink water, that stuff will just go right back into your muscles or into your organs. So you do want to definitely make sure you're drinking water because you want to pee that out, like you want to get get rid of all that stuff so it doesn't go back.

Fabiola Reyes: 24:11

Wow, yeah, you're right. You just spend 90 minutes 60 minutes on your massage. You made the financial commitment and now, if you don't drink water, you're like hey, you know, drink your water, right.

Christen Makan, LMT: 24:27

It's protecting your investment to drink enough water.

Fabiola Reyes: 24:31

Oh, I love that. Oh my gosh, that's a great concept. What's your take on? Should it just be like you know, nice, you know? Filtered water, ideally, not tap water, right, but what about minerals? Should we be concerned about putting minerals back into the system after a massage?

Christen Makan, LMT: 24:55

I think so Drinking enough water and making sure, yeah, that it's that you put your minerals back in, because, because all, and also like electrolytes and all that stuff, because the like, the point of electrolytes is to make your body use the water. If, like, you can drink all the water you want, but if you're you don't have enough salt, your body's not going to hold on to it long enough to put it where it needs to go. If you don't have enough potassium, your body's not going to let it go, it's just going to keep, you're going to retain water. So it's like definitely making sure, like I drink our water because I just that's what I can get easily, but then I also make sure that, like I'm putting Himalayan salt or or Celtic sea salt or like just something to, or doing electrolytes or whatever to, just because otherwise, yeah, I don't. It's like I get tired of the water. I feel like just that's my personal.

Fabiola Reyes: 25:46

Yeah, yeah, no, that makes sense. I struggle with water too and so, yeah, my husband is always on me that you drink your water and I'm like I'm getting to it. So, yes, yes, but adding minerals definitely makes a huge difference. Where, you know, one of some of my favorite brands for electrolytes would be a relight from Redmond. They're, they're, they're pretty pretty good, you know, in flavor, their flavor, with stevia.

Fabiola Reyes: 26:24

If stevia is just something that a person might be sensitive to, then they do have a just a plain, you know, unflavored formula, and they also have salt, like the real salt, which is what I typically do. But, yeah, like you mentioned, celtic salt or him pink Himalayan salt, good quality event, you know, of course. And then I like Dr Price as well, which I've heard my husband loves that one. So well, no, thank you so much for, yeah, explaining that, because it just makes us appreciate more why we need to drink water and the importance of minerals. After that, awesome. And so I guess, well, I have to share this, because it was in my mind when you were talking about, you know, like being gentle and kind of not working someone over too hard, and I don't know if you're familiar with the TV show Friends.

Christen Makan, LMT: 27:23

I'm the one person that, like, didn't watch Friends, unfortunately, but I'm like, I'm familiar with the characters, no worries.

Fabiola Reyes: 27:32

When you were describing you know that, and I was like, oh my gosh, it's like you know, don't be Ross Geller, right? Like, don't just put a lot of pressure on or don't use he uses like wooden spoons to massage this gentleman. Oh my god, you should, if you don't have to watch the whole series, but at least watch that little clip. You'll get a kick out of it.

Christen Makan, LMT: 27:54

I'm sure I can find it on YouTube yeah, oh yes, it's probably a meme somewhere.

Fabiola Reyes: 28:01

So if I want to come down to Florida now, I'm in upstate New York and I'm like, oh my gosh, I need a massage, I need to make the appointment. So if someone were to say, oh my gosh, I'm ready for my start my journey with you, how would someone go about getting in touch with you, providing they're in the area?

Christen Makan, LMT: 28:23

So I have I do a Facebook page it's just my name, kristen Macon, lmt, for licensed massagers, and I have a website on massage book, which is, I guess, my husband found it for me it's, I guess it's kind of like Facebook, but for massage, and you can just find practitioners.

Christen Makan, LMT: 28:45

So I'm on there, I have the link to it on my Facebook page also and my phone number is like all over, like it's all over my Facebook page, but people can just text me or message me or whatever. Sometimes people call me and I'm like in a massage, so like texting me is usually like the most guaranteed way.

Fabiola Reyes: 29:10

Yeah, so we will make sure to put those links on the comments of the once we post this interview so that everyone who hopefully we reach enough people everywhere and, if so, and so happens to listen in another state but they have a friend where you are hopefully a word of mouth, referral type. Well, that's awesome. I really I felt like we covered so much. So we cover the importance of drinking water after massage, the importance of not just thinking it's something about oh, it's pampering, right, or it's a luxury, or only something you do once a year for your birthday, but it's like the therapy and the therapeutic aspect of it and prenatals, chronic inflammation, chronic pain and all the different specialties you know. Like that was so cool.

Fabiola Reyes: 30:03

So I really appreciate you being here with us this afternoon and sharing your, your, your journey as a massage therapist and everything that you can offer for us and that you are offering and how you're helping your clients in the community. Yeah, so for you know, without making this interview any longer, I tend to talk a lot, so I appreciate you being here today and we'll catch everyone next time. Thank you everyone for joining us. We hope you'll learn a lot. If there are any other topics, health topics that you'd like to talk about, for us to talk about, please let us know, make a comment, send us an email, and we'll make sure to provide some of that Information Until next time.